Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

4.10 star(s) 388 Votes
Discussion Reviews (388)
Fayn Arawn

Fayn Arawn

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2019
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dartred said:
Latest update in the patreon saga. It would be best if F95 removes the links here, so WWG won't have to change his URL. If WWG is the one to change his URL, every site, not just f95, will no longer work and WWG will lose a lot of traffic to his page. Old links will no longer work and people may mistake that as WWG no longer having a page or working on the game.

Best case scenario is F95 removes the links from the front page and WWG gets to keep his current URL.

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Remember what Patreon is: a way to financially support a creator which enables them to continue creating. But obviously a creator can't make illegal content and use Patreon to fund it, or Patreon absolutely could be held accountable. Imagine if someone made a page for the clear purpose of, I dunno, providing material support to a terrorist group. It's their money, right?

By "we may be held accountable for what you do with those funds" I can only assume they mean held accountable for the content/service funded through Patreon. That email pulls almost word-for-word from Patreon's Terms of Service, which to be honest are very poorly worded and should be rewritten for clarity:

Abusive conduct

To summarize: Be responsible and don’t violate our terms or policies.

You are responsible for all activity on your account. If you violate our terms or policies, then we may terminate your account. Don’t do anything illegal, abusive towards others, that abuses Patreon in a technical way, or that exploits Patreon in an unintended manner that is detrimental to us, like using Patreon as a storage platform. If you are a creator earning money on Patreon, we may be exposed to risk based on what you do with those funds. As a result, we may also look at what you do outside of Patreon. You can find more detailed information in the Community Guidelines and Security Policy. These terms and our policies cover most issues, but, if you find a new and creative way to hurt Patreon or our community, we may take action to prevent it.
 
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indigis

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May 8, 2018
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Just make a link to another website that has "Patreon" button on it linking to WWG patreon? Pretty sure Patreon can't do anything if there's a bridge between F95 and Patreon lol
 
Zardoz23

Zardoz23

Member
Jan 28, 2021
270
905
Fayn Arawn said:
Remember what Patreon is: a way to financially support a creator which enables them to continue creating. But obviously a creator can't make illegal content and use Patreon to fund it, or Patreon absolutely could be held accountable. Imagine if someone made a page for the clear purpose of, I dunno, providing material support to a terrorist group. It's their money, right?

By "we may be held accountable for what you do with those funds" I can only assume they mean held accountable for the content/service funded through Patreon. That email pulls almost word-for-word from Patreon's Terms of Service, which to be honest are very poorly worded and should be rewritten for clarity:

Abusive conduct

To summarize: Be responsible and don’t violate our terms or policies.

You are responsible for all activity on your account. If you violate our terms or policies, then we may terminate your account. Don’t do anything illegal, abusive towards others, that abuses Patreon in a technical way, or that exploits Patreon in an unintended manner that is detrimental to us, like using Patreon as a storage platform. If you are a creator earning money on Patreon, we may be exposed to risk based on what you do with those funds. As a result, we may also look at what you do outside of Patreon. You can find more detailed information in the Community Guidelines and Security Policy. These terms and our policies cover most issues, but, if you find a new and creative way to hurt Patreon or our community, we may take action to prevent it.
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I can understand and respect that. But there seems to be a gaping wide loophole and that's the creator using the patreon funds for projects not listed on Patreon. Like if a porn dev wanted to what's to stop them from listing their Patreon for a game called, I don't know "Hello Pussy Island Adventure" but then using most of the funding to work on their passion project "Oops I got Reincarnated as a Puppy and Now I Must Fuck My Former Family" (OIRPNIMFMFF for short). As long as the Patreon only mentions Hello Pussy do they have any grounds for removal? Because that seems impossible to enforce.
 
Fayn Arawn

Fayn Arawn

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May 24, 2019
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Zardoz23 said:
I can understand and respect that. But there seems to be a gaping wide loophole and that's the creator using the patreon funds for projects not listed on Patreon. Like if a porn dev wanted to what's to stop them from listing their Patreon for a game called, I don't know "Hello Pussy Island Adventure" but then using most of the funding to work on their passion project "Oops I got Reincarnated as a Puppy and Now I Must Fuck My Former Family" (OIRPNIMFMFF for short). As long as the Patreon only mentions Hello Pussy do they have any grounds for removal? Because that seems impossible to enforce.
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I think in your scenario Patreon would allow it, as long as the "decoy" content was they only thing they were aware of. If they got wind of the "real" content I'm sure they'd pull the plug. Which begs the question: how would a creator advertise their "real" content in such a way to direct supporters to subscribe to the "decoy" content, without leaving any evidence for Patreon to piece it together...?
 
frefdre

frefdre

Newbie
Jun 23, 2021
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wasn't this all because of some guy getting offended by someone disabled getting cucked? and then he went and tattled on this game specifically?
 
Zardoz23

Zardoz23

Member
Jan 28, 2021
270
905
Fayn Arawn said:
Which begs the question: how would a creator advertise their "real" content in such a way to direct supporters to subscribe to the "decoy" content, without leaving a evidence for Patreon to piece it together...?
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A site like F95Zone would be the place to do it. Of course Patreon would go Big Brother mode and monitor their posts here. But if Patreon can use legalese why not turn that on them? "Hey guys! I hope you enjoy my totally free morally reprehensible porn game about raping your former family members with your dog dick. If you'd like to support my OTHER totally legitimate real game here's a link to my Patreon! The two projects have nothing to do with each other but if you like this game you might like that one!"

I mean on one hand it would be totally obvious. On the other hand, would a lawyer really want to take that fight? Patreon might given that they would have the deeper pockets and could tie a would-be porn dev up in legal fees before a trial ever began. But I can't see how they can legitimately stop a developer from listing links "to other projects" in the posts for games that "aren't officially on their platform."
 
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Snugglepuff

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 27, 2017
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frefdre said:
wasn't this all because of some guy getting offended by someone disabled getting cucked? and then he went and tattled on this game specifically?
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No, that was a different game, but the same Patreon rep was involved when it came to that game I believe.

:EDIT:
:FacePalm:
I'd completely forgotten the last time it was a "wave" of games all from the same guy.
 
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dartred

dartred

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Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
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frefdre said:
wasn't this all because of some guy getting offended by someone disabled getting cucked? and then he went and tattled on this game specifically?
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That was last time, yeah. We don't know who did it this time though. 8 games or so got hit pretty much at the same time and hardly any NTR games.
 
MAGO-DAG

MAGO-DAG

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Sep 1, 2023
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dartred said:
That was last time, yeah. We don't know who did it this time though. 8 games or so got hit pretty much at the same time and hardly any NTR games.
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Yeah, like I said before, it's not about ntr. There's more to it than just ntr, maybe there's a guy hiding it somewhere who's upset with avn's...

Edit: Three days ago another game was banned on Patreon, especially without explanation
 
dartred

dartred

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Aug 30, 2017
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banned and not suspended? Do you remember the game? I wonder if that game was way over the line or if the dev didn't take action and attempt to do what Patreon asked them.
 
SonsOfLiberty

SonsOfLiberty

Discussion Dynamo
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Sep 3, 2022
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Maverick369 said:
I suspect people will start going to subscribestar at this rate
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Maverick369 said:
subscribestar may get boost after all of this bullshit'
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Good luck, most won't be able to as their cards won't work or stop working (not to mention banks blacklisting SS), there is a reason many upon many developers lose support when they move to SS.
 
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DD69-1

DD69-1

Engaged Member
Feb 28, 2019
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Fayn Arawn said:
If you are a creator earning money on Patreon, we may be exposed to risk based on what you do with those funds. As a result, we may also look at what you do outside of Patreon
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As a result, we may also look at what you do outside of Patreon --> this is exactly what they are doing now. It just takes a pissed off person with a handful of time and some proof which is widely available in this forum to submit it to the Patreon team and they will action it.

Considering the two bans that WWG got, Patreon isn't actively monitoring the creators [which would be impossible to do, because they have a lot of creators]. They only come into play when someone reports the creator, s yeah someone's been bad/naughty/pissed
 
barglenarglezous

barglenarglezous

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2020
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MAGO-DAG said:
Yeah, like I said before, it's not about ntr. There's more to it than just ntr, maybe there's a guy hiding it somewhere who's upset with avn's...

Edit: Three days ago another game was banned on Patreon, especially without explanation
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I know Moniker Smith's Bloodlines' page was down late last month. And I know Expanding Universe Games' page was down until recently. Were there others?
 
dartred

dartred

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Aug 30, 2017
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barglenarglezous said:
I know Moniker Smith's Bloodlines' page was down late last month. And I know Expanding Universe Games' page was down until recently. Were there others?
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The ones that only i know of, i'm sure there are many others. Apocalust, Heart Problems, My Dorm, Strong Desire, Milfylicious and My New Memories (and PV of course). I think Kris, the guy who handled PV, is the guy who was in charge of reviewing all of these games.
 
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sorco2003

sorco2003

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Sep 3, 2020
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Fayn Arawn said:
I think in your scenario Patreon would allow it, as long as the "decoy" content was they only thing they were aware of. If they got wind of the "real" content I'm sure they'd pull the plug. Which begs the question: how would a creator advertise their "real" content in such a way to direct supporters to subscribe to the "decoy" content, without leaving any evidence for Patreon to piece it together...?
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AWAM did that and was banned based on the findings here in the zone. So, using decoys is as dangerous as using patches.
 
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M

Mouseinfo

Newbie
Nov 1, 2021
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sorco2003 said:
AWAM did that and was banned based on the findings here in the zone. So, using decoys is as dangerous as using patches.
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What about a linktree or something similar? Direct traffic from F95 to the Link tree site and then Patreon would see traffic mainly from that platform. It would be much harder to prove a decoy in that circumstance because WWG has legitimate other socials and pages for fans to connect.
 
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4.10 star(s) 388 Votes